The Workermonkey

Friday, March 31, 2006

I am conceited 

# posted by Damon @ 3/31/2006 01:14:00 PM

Ok here it is, you knew it, and I've known it for quite some time. I think I'm smart and I know a lot about many different areas and think I live a great life, so I often dispense unsolicited advice and sound like a know-it-all. Now here's a philosophical question, assume that I know I am conceited, but if that were my only flaw (it's not) and I were to rid myself of it, would I not then be perfect? And if I were perfect, how would I keep from once again becoming conceited? I hope I get more time to read Buddhist material soon, that helps.

Anyway, I just got a friend to join me skiing, so I hope Monday when we book it isn't sold out, but as long as that's not the case, we are flying up to the arctic to a ski resort called Riksgränsen, which means the border of the country, as it sits on the Norwegian line. We are going the second week in May, which should be perfect since since it's -15°C there now, there's almost 2 meters of snow and about 30 cm more on the way. Oh there are only 34 trails! Whatever, look at the pictures, there is also a lot of off piste skiing, and for a mere $250 you can go up three times in a helicopter and come down with a guide, and you can do this at midnight in the sun if you'd like. Looks sick, and I doubt I will regret missing a football game for it (though maybe I regret joining the football team since this is the season opener I am missing, and I am also missing the scrimmage the week before - again to go to the arctic in a separate trip. So maybe this will cost me a starting job that it looks like I have now, and they make you buy all the equipment and pay fees to rent the facilities and crap, I'm out about a grand!)

Happy birthday for yesterday Josh.

14 comments

Now at that time Pokkharasati had a pupil, the youth Ambattha, who was a student of the Vedas, who knew the mantras, perfected in the Three Vedas, a skilled expounder of the rules and rituals.,. complete in philosophy...

And Pokkharasati said to Ambattha: "Ambattha, my son.,. go to see the ascetic Gotama..."

And the Lord said to Ambattha: 'Ambattha you came here seeking something. Whatever it was you came for, you should listen attentively to hear about it. Ambattha, you have not perfected your training. Your conceit of being trained is due to nothing but inexperience.

'Those who were the first sages of the Brahmins, the makers and expounders of the mantras, whose ancient verses are chanted, pronouncd and collected by the Brahmins of today - whose mantras are said to be passed on to you and your teacher: yet you do not thereby become a sage or one practised in the way of a sage - such a thing is not possible.

'What do you think, Ambattha? What have you heard said by Brahmins who are venerable, aged, the teachers of teachers? Those first sages, did they enjoy themselves, well-bathed, perfumed, their hair and beards trimmed, adorned with garlands and wreaths, dressed in white clothes, indulging in the pleasures of the five senses and addicted to them, as you and your teacher do now?

'Or did they amuse themselves with women dressed up,.?

'Or did they ride around in chariots,.?

'So, Ambattha, neither you nor your teacher are a sage or one trained in the way of a sage.'

The Long Discourses of the Buddha, Ambattha Sutta: Pride Humbled
(excerpts)

By  wyldshaman, at Friday, March 31, 2006 8:09:00 PM  

I think I ought to follow Buddhism on avoiding alcohol as well.

By  Damon, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:35:00 AM  

...you shouldn't need to read that in a book.

By  ron, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:52:00 AM  

if being conceited were your only flaw, yet you did nothing about it, then i dont think it would be your only flaw. however, imagine it was your only flaw, and you did rid yourself of it, thus becoming "perfect." i dont think that someone who is truly "perfect" would become conceited, but rather tehy would be humble. then again, this is the trait i imagine the perfect being having. we could argue over what the perfect being was all day.

is there an objective perfect being, or just subjective perfect beings? and if there is an objective perfect being, could we or anyone else, being imperfect, ever know what its like? would this objective perfect being be any different from some common conceptions of god?

i personally dont find any scripts from organized or official religions helpful. i think the best thing you can do is look inside yourself at what you want to obtain, as your own perfect being. then look at yourself, and see how/what you need to change. what would you like to be different about you? what are your strong points? what are your weak ones?

there is always room for self-improvement. these ideas are merely suggestions. its just my way of doing things, when i want to reexamine myself and become a better person. hopefully it provides some guidance, help, or at least triggers some thoughts. or maybe its just amusing. after all, its MY subjective way, not an objective one.

By  josh, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 2:50:00 PM  

Of course what makes a perfect being is subjective and I think we all strive toward our subjective image of that being. So when we tell stories on here, maybe they sound better to some and worse to others. Like as I get better in my mind, I think I'm just lame in some of yours. And when every now and then Murhpy tells us what he's up to, I have no doubt that is great fun for him, and a lot of people would love to be doing that as well, but it's nowhere near what I want to do. So kinda like I said I think I'm living a great life, but I would think most people should be able to say that. If you value fitness, you do it, if you value casual sex, you do it, if you value intellect, you read and study or whatever.

By  Damon, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 5:06:00 PM  

i think that while the perfect person might be subjective, i'm not sure that whatever someone values is an attribute of their perfect person. to say so seems to say that no one could ever act against their conscience. it seems that the perfect person would only have attributes that one had in good conscience, so could someone never do anything they really thought was wrong/towards the imperfect? to put it another way, wouldn't this mean that it wouldnt be possible to act against what we thought was good?

maybe an example would help. say i like slapping hos, and strive to slap as many hos as possible. if most people should be able to say they're living a great life when they do what they strive to do, could i then say that by slapping lots of hos i'm living a great life? i would argue no, because there are battery laws against slapping hos.

but maybe politicians were wrong to enact those laws? are they subjecting the public to their subjective view of the perfect person? in some circumstances this seems absolutely to be the case, but what about things like laws against murder? i think most people would agree that living a murderous life would not be living a perfect one, but what about people who strive to kill (e.g. hitler)? should we allow them to pursue what they view as a perfect life? do we take a utilitarian approach? or maybe there are just some objective minimum standards out there that one must have to be perfect?

By  josh, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 6:10:00 PM  

thats a nice pic damon. You are an intelligent person but the idea that anyone can achieve perfection is not conceited its just arrogant. There is always something you dont know, something that someone else is better at.

The fact that you are entertaining the idea of being perfect is a little rediculous because no one is. Your realize your flaws and try to fix them but ridding yourself of all flaws is a flaw in itself dont you think. Be humble know what you know and try to learn more on what you dont. but you will never be perfect.

Looks like some sweet ski terrain

By  murphy, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 6:46:00 PM  

I think perfection is a limiting idea, if not also a vague one.

Why strive for perfection? I just try to keep myself happy.

By  ron, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 8:13:00 PM  

Ron and Murphy, the perfection part to this discussion is philosophical, has nothing to do with me.

Josh, your ho-slapper would in their view be living their life as they see it best. But they would go to jail because most people can agree that ho-slapping in not a good ideal to aspire to in life.

Just because ideals are subjective and vary doesn't mean we can't have laws and norms. There is some agreement as to what a good life entails, and what people should not be allowed to do regardless of their subjective idea of a perfect being. But it is also clear the illegal is not synonymous with wrong. Well that is a whole different discussion, and right/wrong wasnt' the point anyway. Josh's initial comment was really the discussion I was looking for in the original post.

By  Damon, at Saturday, April 01, 2006 11:45:00 PM  

This discussion has exceeded my capacity to care. I don't even know what the talk is about. Achieving perfection? fixing flaws? being conceited?

By  ron, at Sunday, April 02, 2006 10:08:00 PM  

I make a motion to end all comments on this post. Seconds?

By  Brancibeer, at Sunday, April 02, 2006 11:00:00 PM  

damon, this is partially why i created my blog. i enjoy the discussion, and invite you to spark similar conversations on my blog if you wish.

By  josh, at Monday, April 03, 2006 12:00:00 PM  

I second the notion to end comments because it seems only Josh is fully understanding me. Just to sum up, I know I am conceited and arrogant. I am trying to remind myself to listen more carefully to others, to deliberately consider their view, and respond only if I have something useful to them. This is just one of many faults I have. I did enjoy some parts of the debate on a perfect being though. That is only an idea, but I think each person probably has an ideal version of themselves in mind and should strive toward it. But no one can ever reach it, and of course there is no perfect being outside our individual minds.

By  Damon, at Monday, April 03, 2006 2:02:00 PM  

Sorry guys, i was being sarcastic. I blame it on this website format...its confusing and detrimental to having meaninful conversations. Its like a monkey designed it.

By  Brancibeer, at Tuesday, April 04, 2006 4:30:00 PM  

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